Growing up today is a lot different to what it used to be. Although we all want to raise happy kids, there are added pressures like social media, too much screen time, cyber threats and 21st century challenges beyond our control. Hugh van Cuylenburg, founder of The Resilience Project, says we can’t control the future and we can’t change the past, but we can improve our everyday outlook by practising the GEM principles – gratitude, empathy (or compassion), and mindfulness. In part two of his chat for Life Education, Hugh talks about what drives his work, how to stop technology from making us less present, and the one simple activity that boosts happiness. In a year of upheaval, Hugh’s relatable advice and humour is a welcome tonic for mental wellbeing.
Tracey Challenor:
Hello, I'm Tracey Challenor. Welcome to the Life Education podcast series. Today, we're joined again by Hugh van Cuylenburg, founder of the Resilience Project, a mental health and wellbeing program, that's been adopted by hundreds of schools, businesses, and sporting teams across Australia. Hugh's working life began as a school teacher, and these days, he's one of Australia's most sought-after mental health advocates. He believes that focusing on three simple principles, gratitude, empathy, and mindfulness, can dramatically change the way we look at life. This is part two of my chat with Hugh, and I asked him how we can bring more mindfulness and positivity into our lives and help our children do the same.
Tracey Challenor:
Hugh, the world that our kids are growing up in, is very different to the one we grew up in. It feels a lot faster, for one thing. A lot of parents are concerned about the constant presence of social media in kids' lives, which has added to what I call this compare and despair phenomenon. The perception that everyone else's life is perfect and our own is less than, which is so not true. And there's also, of course, the role that social media plays in body image issues and bullying, not to mention just the time that it can suck out of your day. Having worked in schools for so long, what do you see as the risks of screen addiction and what strategies can parents adopt to stop technology from impacting on kids' mental health?
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
I feel so grateful that I grew up before social media and before devices.
Tracey Challenor:
Me too.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Because I see kids... I compete in athletics, and so I see kids, and teenagers and people in their young twenties competing in just their team sport or their competitive sport. Beforehand, I see them on their phone, as soon as they finish the race, they go sit on their phone. And I think back to what it was like for me as a kid running around a race track, it was, you finish your race, and then you go and sit with people, and just talk to them, and you hang out, and you make plans for the day, and you're just there. But I just think, my gosh, [inaudible 00:02:14]. My cricket club that I played for, for many years, I watched them have a really wonderful win last season. I went into the changing rooms afterwards, and I'm expecting raucous scenes, and I went in there and it was just dead silence because everyone was on their phone. And these are men in their young, early 20s. I was thinking, no, this is where you're... This is connection time. This is where you connect.
Tracey Challenor:
Did you ask them to put their phones away?
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Yeah, I started collecting them. But I was only [inaudible 00:02:30]. I went and took a few of them off them to make the point, they all knew. But I do a lot of work with Port Adelaide Football Club. I love Port Adelaide Football Club, they're a wonderful group of people. But they actually came up with the rule last season, that no phones after the game for an hour so they could just connect afterwards. But what I seen in schools, I think, to come back to the question, I feel extremely sad for kids who, are growing up in this.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
And I don't blame parents at all for putting their kids in front of devices. I completely understand because you're able to look after your own sanity, and mental health a bit more when you can just have a bit of peace and quiet. And when I go to work, and my wife needs to have a shower, and she's got a six month old and a three and a half year old, having a shower is a luxury. But if she puts the three and a half year old in front of a cartoon about dinosaurs for five minutes, she can have a shower.
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah, we've all done that.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
So yeah. So you just... It's this constant... But then you feel guilty about it, maybe I shouldn't be doing this. I mean, the thing is, the biggest problem for mine, is that kids are never bored anymore. And they need to be bored because when you're bored, that's when you learn to be creative. That's where all creativities come from, is from boredom and kids are never bored anymore. So we had to find that balance between, yeah we're looking after ourselves, but make sure, allow your kids to be bored so they have to go and create something.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
I saw my son the other day playing, but he hasn't played... He's not great at playing by himself. He always wants us to play with him. And I saw him playing by himself the other day because I kept saying, no, no, no, I can't play with you, I've got to do this, go do to this. And feeling guilty about it. And then I realised about five minutes later, he was just playing with his dinosaurs, and he's inventing this game and I thought, so this is the perfect example, I've got to let him be bored more. And I think it speaks more broadly to this issue of screens in that we can justify and say, oh it's educational. They're watching, whatever it is, this is educational.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
But I still think they're not challenging. They're not being challenged enough to be creative. And I think that's what we need to... When I was a kid, I would often... I had a very good friend of mine and I won't say his name because he'd be shattered if this was made public. But I heard a friend of mine the other day say to his son, "Do you have to be on the iPad while you're watching television? Just watch television." And I was thinking, gosh, when we were kids that was, get off, turn the television off and go outside.
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
And that was... They are my happiest memories by far. Being outside of my backyard at home, playing basketball, cricket, chasing my brother or sister around. They are my happiest memories. I don't think there'll be kids in 20 years’ time saying, oh my happiest memories were sitting in front of the iPad on the couch.
Tracey Challenor:
Yes. Scrolling through your phone and looking at Instagram or whatever, Snapchat.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Yeah, totally. But I also think, Tracey, the one probably most important thing to acknowledge, is that we as adults, we are the bigger problem because we are modelling those poor behaviours to our kids all the time. I mean, we say we don't want them on their device and get off your device, but we turn around and we're on our... We're sending emails at 9 o'clock at night in front of them or we're checking Facebook at 7:30 at night while we're getting dinner ready. If you want to influence someone's behaviours, you got to model the behaviours. And that means putting your phone away and not showing them how much you check it. Because we're all addicted to... Most of us are addicted to our devices but it sends a very poor message to our kids. And they're not going to listen to us if we're saying, get off your phone, and then we're turning around and checking Facebook at the dinner table, whatever it is. So we have to start setting better examples.
Tracey Challenor:
And you're right. We can lead by example, can't we? And you've also proposed something, Hugh, that almost seems quite radical, leaving home without your phone.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Well, yeah. We have to undo a lot of the things that our phone has trained us to do. So we rely on it for, I mean, right now, if I think about, there aren't many places I can go without my phone because I use my phone to pay for things now. I use my phone to navigate where I'm going. I use my phone for all type of music. So I've had to try and unwind the things I've become reliant on to... So now I'm limited to, when I go to the park with my son, don't need my phone. Going for a run, I've now got a watch so I can measure my run and watch whatever. I don't have my phone then. And I'm trying to increase the amount of things I can do without my phone. And it is such a... You get a bit anxious at first and there's quite a few times you think, oh I could really do with my phone right now, I do need it. But you're going to survive.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
We've lived in them, for many years without them. We don't need them everywhere we go. And I almost, especially during the summer, I was really getting a kick from the more outrageous, the bigger the trip out of the house without my phone, the more excited I get and the more... I thought, if I could go to a social gathering for three or four hours and not take my phone, there’s a huge win. I'd go, my gosh, I did it, that's great. And I'd take a wallet and I would have credit cards, fancy that, and pay for things with a credit card. And I'd work out in my head, how to get there beforehand without relying on Google maps. So... But I think every time I did it, I think the point is, every single time I did it, I made greater connections.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Because the second I got, I felt shy. So to social setting, if I arrive somewhere a bit early and I didn't know too many people where I was going, the default says to grab your phone and just sit on your phone until you know people which will arrive that you know a bit better. But it actually forced me to go and talk to people. And it was... The connections I made were fantastic. We're put on the earth to connect. Connection is a great source of... A great strategy for good mental health. You make a social connection or emotional connection with someone, it is so good for you. No phone to stop me.
Tracey Challenor:
Makes you feel happier.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
It does, it really does. So...
Tracey Challenor:
Great strategies, Hugh. I'm going to try that. I'm going to delete my Facebook from my phone.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Oh, you have to do that. That's just an absolute. I mean, they are honestly, they're the masters. They are the masters of sucking us into our phone. I haven't been on Facebook for two and a half years. I haven't missed it for a second and I'm better off because of it.
Tracey Challenor:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I can well believe it. One of the simple things that you urge people to do, is write down three things that went well each day as part of a gratitude journal. And there's a little science and research behind this too, isn't there? How will doing this simple activity, change our brains over a period of time?
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Well, it rewires your brain to scan the world for the positives. So the average person, I don't want to get this wrong, I believe the negativity bias, people can look this up, but it says we're seven times more likely to notice a negative than a positive. And we all know what that feels like. We walk around the world and something goes wrong and we pay attention to it. Or something kind of threatens our ego a bit and we get really down about that. Something good happens, oh that's nice, but we move on pretty quickly. If every single night you recorded three things that went well for you during the day and not huge, I'm talking about little things. It could be, you have nice coffee or you get a nice text message from your sister or brother, and you weren't expecting it. If you do that every single day, you actually rewire your brain to be someone who walks around scanning the world for the positives. And that makes you a happier person at a very basic level. It creates more positive emotion that makes you more resilient.
Tracy Challenor:
It stands to reason. And even just at the dinner table as a family, even if you don't write it down, you can just recap the best thing that happened during the day. I know we try to do this with our kids and sometimes they look at you like, oh mum and dad, that's just so cheesy. But it does strike up some interesting conversations. Usually someone ends up laughing, someone says something funny and it's a great way just to get everyone talking. Otherwise, it's like, what you do today? Nothing.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Totally. No, that's exactly right. And I mean, there's an episode of Bluey now called favourite things. And it's all about the conversation at the dinner table and what was your favourite thing that happened today. As I said to you before, I do this with my son every night in bed, we'd talk about our favourite things that happen during the day. And I know that when he gets older, it's going to be lame, it's going to be cheesy, he's not going to want to do it. But that's part of being a teenager, is kind of rebelling against your parents ideals, and values for a bit and not liking what they do.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
But when our teenagers decide to come back to us and be normal human beings again, the values that we model throughout those years, will have a huge impact on the person they decided they want to be when they grow up. So often, it's not about forcing your own. A lot of people saying, there's no way my 16-year-old son will do this. Well, don't force him to. You don't want to push them. You don't want this activity to put a gap between the two of you. Just discuss it with your partner, or the other kids or talk about it yourself. And they don't have to participate, they'll listen. And I'm sure they'll think about it in their head. They may not participate, but they will at least think about it.
Tracy Challenor:
Yeah. And at least it shows you're interested in their lives, doesn't it?
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Yeah, totally. I mean, the other thing to do, if you've got teenage boys, they're the ones who are less likely to do this, but if you're having no luck with them, just let them know that Billy Slater does this every night and so does Dustin Martin. So we got both codes covered there. And two quite inspirational sports people. That tends to have an impact. I don't know why, but it does.
Tracey Challenor:
I'll have to try that with my teenage boys. Hugh, I found it incredibly moving to read in your book, that a number of high profile footy players, talking about footy players, have reached out to you in recent years to say that the Resilience Project talk, is the one thing that kept them from committing suicide. When you receive feedback like that, it must be a pretty powerful motivation for you to continue the work that you're doing.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
It is, because it's been 10 years now, and I have gone through a stage where I've been completely burnt out and completely exhausted. And I've been saying to everyone, wherever I go, no matter who you are, no matter how you feel, you should go and see a psychologist. Even if you're a happy person, you should always work on yourself. So it took me a while to follow my own advice but I've been seeing a psychologist recently and just talking about this. I do a similar talk, two or three times a day for 10 years and I'm exhausted from it. But then I feel this burden, not burden, but I feel responsible to keep doing it because I know that it's... What I've been told by people, its saving lives. And trying to work out the balance there, has been really fascinating for me. Because sometimes I go to bed and go, I just can't. I just can't do this anymore. I can't do this talk. I'm-
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah I can understand that.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
But then the second I get up there in front of a group and I see it hitting home for... There's a football club up in Queensland, [inaudible 00:12:45] New South Wales, I did a talk for and it was... I remember when I walked in, it was a few years ago but I remember just thinking, my gosh, they don't want me here, this is not the kind of thing they're up for. But I remember one of the players just sat there, staring at me and he refused to look either side of him, so no one could see him. He just had tears, just streaming down his face the whole 60 minutes. He just cried the whole way through. And he sent me a message about a month later and he said, rugby league players always call you brother, he said, "Brother, you saved my life." And that's all. He didn't want to give me a context around that. We didn't go into it, explore it or talking about any further. He just said, "Brother, you saved my life." I don't know what was happening there but that simple message or seeing him like that makes me think, I've got a lot more energy in this. I've got a lot more energy for this stuff.
Tracey Challenor:
Oh, that's incredible. Yeah.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
So, yeah it's funny, it's a lot of these elite sports people. I still... There's a sports psychologist that I have a great deal of time for. We often discuss why this stuff is so powerful for them. There's a whole lot of different theories that he's come up with, but often their existence has been about toughen up, don't show any pain, mental or physical. The tougher, you just got to put on a mask, you turn up to the club, leave your stuff at the door, don't burden us with it. And when someone gives them permission to say, you know what? I'm actually not okay. It's this huge pressure release for them or this valve sort of releases everything.
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
So we have a lot of tears in our, probably more than any other group, I think is the only sporting group I see people crying the most.
Tracey Challenor:
Incredible feedback. Really shows the impact of the program. Now that you've become a parent yourself, has that reinforced to you even more than need to help young people in particular, get the tools they need to live a happier and more fulfilling life?
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Yeah. I find it fascinating because I'm watching my three-year-old, Elsie is too young now but Benji, my three and a half year old, just watching his behaviour so closely and probably too closely. I'm watching how, he's actually someone who doesn't respond well when he can't do something. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, he's not resilient. What? This can't be it. And then that was about six months ago. I was really actually quite worried about how we gave him a scooter and he couldn't do it the first go. So it was toys out of the cot. It was... He sulked for hours and it was this... Whenever he saw it, he would kick it over. And I'd say, try it again. We always try again. We always try again. And he just wouldn't want to buy and I was thinking, oh my gosh, this is not good.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
And we tried with kinder for a bit and he really struggled to... Just had some big issues with us leaving and so we decided it wasn't the time. So we'd have to try him again next year. The kinder teacher very jokingly said to me, "Oh, he's not very good for your brand." And I said a laugh. And yeah, and then I went away and going, oh my gosh, what are people saying? This is... So I've been really watching him and he's come through it six months later. He's really, he's just a different kid. I was talking at schools for years, without kids about parenting. And I always felt a bit silly doing that.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
But now it's just out of this whole level of, when I talk about it now, a certain topic or a certain question will come up and I get very emotional about it because I'm living it in my house. And by the way, they test your own resilience like nothing else. This is... Parenting is the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life, by so far. I mean, nothing comes close to it. Everyone said to me, "Oh, it's so hard. Just hang on to your hat and my gosh, wait till you..." And I thought, I think you'd be surprised, I'm actually talking about this every day. No. Nothing could have prepared me for this challenge that we are. Yeah, it is the hardest thing I've ever done by a mile.
Tracey Challenor:
Especially the stage you're at. I think with the three year old and a baby in the house, that's full on. It does get easier though.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Yes. And well, everyone keeps saying that. And we also, we've got friends who have got babies now. We kept saying to them, don't worry it gets easier. So it does, every step is easier. But I mean, someone said to me the other day, "Big people, big problems." So they said, "The bigger they get, the bigger the problems." The bigger they get, the bigger the problems are. And I can understand how that might be the case as well. So yeah, certainly tested my resilience, that's for sure.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
I've had moments where I haven't been proud of my response or the way I've behaved. And I haven't felt like that since I was a kid. I haven't had moments where I've gone, oh I'm ashamed of my behaviour there. And I remembered that the other day, catching myself, Benji had just been pushing, and pushing, and pushing us and I was lying on the floor and trying to play a game with him and he was so upset, he hit me in the head for something. And I just not happy the way I handled it. And I felt shame over it. I thought I haven't felt shame over my behaviour since I was in primary school. That's how hard this is.
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah. Parenting really tests you, doesn't it? But I'm sure you and Penny are doing a fantastic job.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Well, we're trying hard.
Tracey Challenor:
So Hugh, what is next for the Resilience Project? It sounds like it's just going from strength to strength. 10 years, that's a great amount of time and you've had such a big impact already. Where do you see it going?
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Well, it's not quite 40 years, as Life Education is, not quite 40 years. But yeah. Well, I mean, we [inaudible 00:17:50] about... For many years, people have said, "Oh, you need to turn this into a digital program so that any school can access this at any time." And I've been a bit too attached to it having to be a face-to-face presentation, which I know, I see people engage emotionally with what we're doing. And I've said, no, no, no. It has to be a 10 out of 10 experience for them. To have people say, "No, why don't you make an 8 or 9 out of 10 experience and put it on to a video?" And I've been saying, no, no. It has to be perfect.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
And my little brother is actually a videographer and he does the most extraordinary work with the videos he creates. And then he's been doing a bit of stuff for us and I realised that he can completely redo our presentations. They're not presentations in schools. They are almost television shows he's been creating with Martin, the other presenter, who's just this extraordinary performer. He used to be a deputy principal. And every minute I spend with him, I feel like I'm a better person. So I thought, well, surely we should be putting him on a video and getting his digital content out there.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
So we've created this digital program with him now. And I think we've got 40 schools trialling it this year. And I think we've got about 50 next year. In fact, there's a whole region up the far North Queensland and they're doing the program. The North Queensland Cowboys with the Primary Health Network are actually paying to have all those schools use the program.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
And then I'm actually having the digital program ... We're in the process of turning my talk into a series of television shows essentially, for kids from prep to year 12. So that we just have to click a button and then any school can have anywhere. So we're really excited about that. And we're always about how do we reach more people. How can we get a greater reach? And what we've discovered is that, well, I've known this all along but I can't go and be in every school. Martin can't go and be in every school. So we've just got to think of ways to get the message out there as far and wide. So the digital content is there. I'm really excited about the podcasts. I think podcasts are a wonderful platform for learning when people can schedule time.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
I mean, you understand this better than anyone. But they go, right, I've got this half an hour, I want to engage in this for this hour. And it's really beautiful when that happens. So, our podcast [The] Imperfects, I’m loving. We've got another book on the way as well, which is coming out next year.
Tracey Challenor:
Gosh.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
Yeah. And then I also, will next year, hopefully be able to do the public national tour. I go and speak in all the major cities because that is my absolute favourite thing to do, is to get up and present in front of an audience. So I'm hoping we can do that again next year. If the world goes back to normal.
Tracey Challenor:
Oh, fantastic. Let's hope so. So, 2021, Hugh Van Cuylenburg on tour?
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
That's it. That's exactly right.
Tracey Challenor:
Well, Hugh, it has been so wonderful to chat with you today and I really appreciate your time. It's just, it's so great talk to you about the Resilience Project and get a feel for the GEM principles as well. So, gratitude, empathy, mindfulness. Such a great mantra. I find myself saying it a lot through the day. It's really helpful. And I know it's been helpful to a lot of other people as well. So thanks so much for your time today.
Hugh van Cuylenburg:
It's a pleasure and congratulations on everything that Life Education does. I've said to you before, I have very, very fond memories and even remember the stuff I learnt back as a primary school kid. So... And that is, I've turned 40 this year. So that's 30 years later or more than 30 years later. So it's an incredible program. So congratulations on everything you guys do as well.
Tracey Challenor:
Thank you. It's great to have you as an alumni.
Hugh Van Cuylenburg:
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Tracey.
Tracy Challenor:
Thanks Hugh.
Hugh Van Cuylenburg:
Pleasure.
Tracey Challenor:
Hugh van Cuylenburg was my guest today. He's the founder of the Resilience Project and author of the book Resilience Project, Finding Happiness Through Gratitude, Empathy, and Mindfulness. And you can find out more on the Resilience Project website. This has been another episode of the Life Education podcast series for parents. Feel free to share with a friend and you can become a regular subscriber to our free Life Education podcasts on all your favourite platforms. I'm Tracey Challenor until next time. Thanks for joining us.