Would you like to get a better handle on stress and be boss of your own brain? Why do we reach for the sugary foods when life is throwing us curveballs, even though we know it would be better to grab an apple? According to leading neuroscientist Professor Selena Bartlett, it’s all to do with how our pleasure-seeking brain responds to stress. But she believes we can beat binge eating and other addictions, and improve our mental health, by gaining a better understanding of how the brain works. In this fascinating podcast, find out how modern neuroscience, combined with some simple daily mindset habits, can improve your mental health and overall fitness.
Would you like to get a better handle on stress and be boss of your own brain? Why do we reach for the sugary foods when life is throwing us curveballs, even though we know it would be better to grab an apple? According to leading neuroscientist Professor Selena Bartlett, it’s all to do with how our pleasure-seeking brain responds to stress. But she believes we can beat binge eating and other addictions, and improve our mental health, by gaining a better understanding of how the brain works.
In this fascinating podcast, find out how modern neuroscience, combined with some simple daily mindset habits, can improve your mental health and overall fitness.
Tracey Challenor:
Does it sometimes feel like your brain is going in a million different directions? Juggling work, parenting, and trying to keep your mental health and well-being intact isn't easy, but what if there was a way to become boss of your own brain?
Hi, I'm Tracey Challenor. And in this Life Education podcast for parents, we're talking about food, mood, and brain health.
According to award-winning QUT neuroscientist, Professor Selena Bartlett, when we understand how the brain works and how stress leads to unhealthy habits, we can build brain resilience, which leads to better mental strength and a healthier lifestyle.
Sound compelling? Well, to tell us more about her fascinating research, Selena joins our Life Education podcast. Hi, Selena. Thanks for joining us.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Hi, thank you for having me, and I look forward to speaking with and reaching out to your audience.
Tracey Challenor:
Selena, it has been a stressful year for a lot of people. We're hearing a lot about mental health issues right now. From a neuroscience perspective, how can we get our day off to a more positive start?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
The causal factors have to be addressed first. And at the moment because of COVID I can't emphasize enough how critically important this is for our country. To start, when you wake up in the morning, because the brain will do everything you set it to do, so start in the morning by simply looking out the window, at the sky because it will calm the brain first. The more strategies you can build into your morning routine, whether it's making your bed, looking out the window, doing your exercise, goes a long way to calming your brain. There's this circular thing, and it all starts with mitigating the way stress is wired into your brain. If you want to have a quick check on your mood, food is a great way to do that.
Tracey Challenor:
So, if we're reaching for bad stuff?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
You know you're very stressed. If you're eating, without being aware of what you're eating, and I'll have examples that I've talked to people where they'll say to me, they've got lolly wrappers or candy wrappers on the car seats, on the floor of the car, and they have no idea when they ate it, as an example, or they'll have a packet of chips and it'll be empty, and they go, "Oh my god, I don't know when I did that." So that's an example of a stressed brain trying to relieve stress.
Tracey Challenor:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Professor Selena Bartlett:
To get on top of that takes daily training, and it starts the first minute you wake in the morning. And this has such a profound effect on your family and its environment. And what does it mean? It means you're getting to know how your brain works, and you're powering your brain. And that's where it starts from, and then food and mood follow from understanding that.
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah. I love the idea of building brain resilience or retraining the mindset. And I've heard you talk a number of times about taming the mygi monster, and mygi is the amygdala, that part of the brain that processes emotions like fear and danger. So, you're saying that stress activates the amygdala, but if we can control that response and put the rational brain in charge, we can override some of those unhealthy food impulses or behaviours.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
It's not even overriding it; it's building a new circuit. It's a new habit because your habits have come to you from multiple generations of habits.
Tracey Challenor:
What are some practical ways that you can become boss of your own brain? I mean, how can you recognize when you are stressed and the amygdala is taking over? What are some practical things you can do?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
It's critical to start your day well, so what I mean by that, my killer morning routine is from the minute you wake, your brain's going to direct you to good and bad things. I call it path A versus path B. In path A, it's simple but not easy because you're creating some new routines. As soon as you wake, instead of reaching for your phone and scanning through your Facebook feed, which is quite stressful, understand your brain processes everything without you even knowing it. What's happening when you're scanning these feeds is the brain, because this part of the brain is so old, it takes in negative information, whether it's sights, sounds, or smells at 10 times the rate of positive information. It does that subconsciously beyond your awareness because that's what it's wired to do.
Tracey Challenor:
Well, we could do without that at the start of the day.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Well, we can, but we have to understand that that's what it does because how do you know ... this is where the knowledge raises all boats.
Tracey Challenor:
Having that awareness.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Exactly. Without that awareness, the brain's always in charge, always. It has been for centuries.
Tracey Challenor:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Professor Selena Bartlett:
So why I say that to you. And when I say to you, your morning routine is - you're consciously driving in positive. You have to consciously drive in positives into the brain because the brain will always default to negative. It's just what it does unless it's trained not to. And so, when you look out the window, when you're doing your exercise, and you're making the bed, when you're thinking about three things, you're grateful for, as soon as you wake in the morning, that simple little routine is already telling your brain that you're in charge.
Tracey Challenor:
It's a case of start how you mean to go really, isn't it? Getting your day off to a good start.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
And basically, the brain is always operating on what it's paying attention to.
Tracey Challenor:
Right.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
And so, while you're doing these three routines, you're basically forcing the brain out of being negative.
Tracey Challenor:
So, is it fair to say that the more we scan for the positives, the more our brain starts to have that positive mindset?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yes. Well, it has to because that's how it works.
Tracey Challenor:
It's what you're feeding.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Exactly. And the brain will do whatever you give it. You become the boss of the brain. That's what I mean by that. That's exactly what I mean because every brain’s so different. One thing doesn't work for everybody. So I told you that because that works for me, but for someone else, it might be simply going and looking at their baby and having a smile, make the first thing the best thing, not the first thing being the most negative thing, which is like, "Oh my god, I've got all these emails," and, "Oh my god, I've got so much work to do," or, "Oh my god, I've got to go make the lunches." This is me, by the way. "I've got to get the kids to school. They're always late. I've got to get to my lab by 9:00. I've got this meeting at 9:30. Oh my god, I haven't prepared for that." And that was my morning routine.
Tracey Challenor:
That’s the reality, isn't it for a lot of parents? I mean, in a perfect world, we would get up at 5:00 AM. We'd do some meditation. We'd have some time for exercise, and -
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yeah. But you don't need to do that. You don't - It's five minutes.
Tracey Challenor:
Is all it takes.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Starting your day with ... it's five minutes first. What I'm telling you is there's simple little things, they make a massive difference. They all add up. You don't need to get up and think, "Now I'm going to meditate. Now I'm going to exercise." No, you can't do that. It's too hard. Especially, when you're a young parent or any parent, to be honest. You've just got to start small. Start small, think of three things you're grateful for.
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah. That's a great way to start the day. And they are simple things that you can incorporate into your day. And something a doctor told me once was if you get a bit of light on your eyelids first thing in the morning, that hits your pituitary gland and that makes you feel more awake and positive. So, I always try to walk out on my back deck with my coffee and look at the light and the trees.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yeah. And even if you can't do that because your kids are screaming because they want you straight away or something, just look out the window. Well, if you can't even do that, I'd say wiggle your toes.
Tracey Challenor:
Okay!
Professor Selena Bartlett:
And I say that ... I'm not saying that in a kind of flippant way, I'm saying that because so many people aren't able to wiggle their toes, and they’d love to be able to wiggle their toes. And it just starts to take the brain outside itself and make you more aware of how lucky you are.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
I know that's a simple thing, but it's big actually in this world that you can wiggle your toes and you have this life to live, and it's immediately stopping the brain from just going over and over and over all the things you haven't done or you've got to do. "Oh my god, what are we going to do about this job and that job and money and mortgages." We're trying to live a life that's complicated even though we're wealthy. But those simple little strategies, they matter because you're taking control of your brain health like you take care of your body health and how you look.
Tracey Challenor:
Well, we've all been looking for ways to get a bit more of that dopamine, that feel-good chemical, into our lives this year. That's the chemical that makes us feel motivated, and I guess happy?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yes.
Tracey Challenor:
Research shows things like exercise, meditation, a healthy diet, even social contact, can naturally boost dopamine levels in the brain. But what are some other, apart from those, things that we can do that are easy and we can incorporate into our day? You mentioned wiggling your toes, and I'm trying that now while I'm talking to you.
Professor Selena Bartlett
Okay. Another good one for your audience right now. I like to call it disarming your enemy.
Tracey Challenor:
Okay.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Because you know how we're always threatened by people leaving us out or whatever it is that we're anxious about. So right now, whoever's listening to your podcast including you, to sit straight up and put your shoulders back and take a deep breath. And if people are standing somewhere, they can do that, too, or they can put their arms up to the sky or whatever it is you want to do. Now do the opposite. Now, drop your arms down by your knees in a slouch.
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Now, see how you feel. Is there a difference in how you feel? So basically, when you're pushing your shoulders back, it's the dominant position in the animal hierarchy.
Tracey Challenor:
Yes.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
And you get an increase in feeling more confident compared to in the slouching position, for example. What you're doing there is you're taking control of your brain.
Tracey Challenor:
Just by changing your posture you're sending a powerful message to your brain that you're calm and confident.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yeah. Well, it's immediately training your amygdala.
Tracey Challenor:
I just want to touch on your research because your research explores how our brains respond to the stress of addictive behaviours like binging on sweet foods, drinking and smoking. When it comes to food though, I think many of us can relate to using food to medicate when we're stressed, bored, or unhappy. I guess we call it comfort eating.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yes, emotional eating.
Tracey Challenor:
Why is it that kids and adults alike often want the chocolate bar and the chips when life is challenging, even though we know it's much healthier to grab an apple or a banana. Why do we do that?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
We learned over a long period of time that that makes us feel better from untrained, unmitigated stress. Stress is wired into the brain.
Tracey Challenor:
Is it our brain seeking pleasure, is that part of the problem?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Absolutely. Because the brain doesn't like too much stress. It kills off the synapses, and the brain won't do that because it's an amazing machine. Its main job is to keep you here and alive. And if you're not training out your stress by doing brain training, like these healthier things, then your brain actually drives you to seek dopamine-seeking things like donuts and chocolate. It's a wiring mechanism. It's a learned behaviour. It's an actual circuit that's been trained in the brain over decades. My mother, for example, not trying to put my family under the bus here, but it's just helpful. Once upon a time before my mother was brain training, she used to have four little kids at home, and she would get me to go and buy her bars of chocolate that she would hide under the pillow.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
I didn't know anything because I was 10 years old back then, but clearly, she was using it because she was really stressed out. And then that's what I learned to do. I watched her behaviour. I didn't know any different, and then I would be getting that, too. And I'd be doing the same thing for myself. So, when I discovered, in my 40s, is that I was doing the same thing because I was not training my stress. I was letting my brain do it for me. So, the brain does it. It's a very specific mechanism in the brain. It's in a certain part of the brain. So, stress part of the brain is wired to pleasure part of the brain. They go hand in hand. And the brain's so clever, of course, it's going to do that, right? So, the reason it happens so quickly is because that part of the brain is in the subconscious, unconsciously aware part of your brain.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
It's the amygdala and the nucleus accumbens, and so before you know it, at work for example, because we're not mitigating our stress on a daily basis, then just say, you have a bunch of things happen, whether it's emails or someone looks at you in a funny way, or you feel excluded from something, and this is not just work, this is life. It's my children. It's everybody. Then before you know it, you go to the vending machine, for example, at work or you duck in to get a bag of lollies or chips or whatever it is. That's your thing.
Tracey Challenor:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Professor Selena Bartlett:
For me, it was sugar. And I didn't know this. I was totally unaware of this. And, but now I don't do that because I'm really aware of it. I've learnt about it and my brain.
Tracey Challenor:
Your research basically has identified two pretty alarming things about sugar, hasn't it? That A, it's addictive and B, that it does change the physical and chemical structure of the brain in those ways that you've talked about.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Absolutely.
Tracey Challenor:
So, is that why, sometimes when we eat sugary foods, it actually makes us feel more on edge and anxious? It makes us feel worse.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
So, I was in alcohol addiction research labs. Sugar were the controls in our experiments, on my way back to Australia, my collaborator at Stanford rang me and said, Selena, you won't believe this, but the animals that are drinking sugar - their brains changing exactly the same way as alcohol and nicotine.
Tracey Challenor:
Gosh.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
I did not believe it. So, when I got back here, I had a PhD student replicate this work over four years. So, we were able to show that sugar is activating exactly the same parts of the brain, that alcohol and nicotine do. It's actually activating the same receptors in the brain. And that just was frightening to me. I was shocked. And so, yes, it's changing the prefrontal cortex. So that's where impulse control fits. That's the part of the brain that makes you stop taking the second donut, for example.
Tracey Challenor:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Professor Selena Bartlett:
The causal factor is stress and stress over a long period of time is leading to this.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
So, I just want to let everyone know that.
Tracey Challenor:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Professor Selena Bartlett:
So, the second alarming thing to me, I was running marathons and training at the time, but I was struggling to lose weight around my belly and my thighs because I've had children. I was really stressed out. I'd had - running a big lab. I wasn't taking care of myself and I'd put on a lot of weight before I came back to Australia, and the type of food over there in America is quite different. And well it's getting like that here, but it's large portion sizes, lots of sugar in the food, particularly fructose, which is you want to talk about? So, I had no idea cause I was studying alcohol. And then all of a sudden everything became super clear, oh my God, that was me. I was using sugar to medicate my stress. I was one guy in the vending machine, I was the one not exercising.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
And I was the one not taking care of my stress, for example, at a personal level. And I'm studying it for a long time. So, you can imagine how I felt. But anyway, immediately what I did, I started to reduce sugar. So, I was the one that could never feel full too after eating sugar. And so, then I read all the papers in the area and obviously our labs showed it was addictive, which made it difficult to give up. But the thing about it, it's the fructose in sugar. That's become embedded in our foods. So, it's not just lollies and candy. No, if you go and look at... across foods, when I started to look at the packaging and to see what I was eating, outside carbs and everything else I was doing, it was everywhere. So, when I then made the step of trying to reduce sugar in my diet, I was shocked to see how much I was actually eating.
Tracey Challenor:
I think you actually said in one of your research papers that 75% of all foods and beverages contain sugars. So, we're, we're really up against it. Aren't we?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yeah, we are. And, and it was stressful to discover that, to be honest. The thing that really changed for me personally, and then what I see now in my lab, we're doing a whole lot of research in this area now in terms of how it affects the brain. But the big, big thing for me was as I started to reduce my sugar intake, basically I got my appetite back. So, when I ate, I started to feel full again from the food I subsequently ate. So, it's the fructose affects the hypothalamus, which turns off these peptides that make you feel full. Those peptides are called ghrelin and leptin, which you would have heard about possibly.
Tracey Challenor:
Yes.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
But that meant that I was never full from eating, which meant I could eat a lot for my size and my height. This is a great place to start for yourself because whether it's sugar, some people it's cheese, some people's wine, some people it's highly processed foods. Everyone's got a thing that soothes them.
Tracey Challenor:
For sure, cheese and crackers is my thing.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yeah, exactly. Without recognising you're doing that because all of this stress is built up in your brain and it's never been trained because that's the underlying cause of sugar, alcohol. They're just outcomes. They're not the problem. There's another problem that's driving it. That's what I'm working on now - before I was working on addiction - but now I'm working on the underlying causes, which is way more powerful for everybody to understand.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
That's why I'm saying brain science is going to change mental health treatments. Well, I hope it will. But anyway, so the sugar alcohol thing, yes, it gives you immediate pleasure because you get a release of dopamine in this part of the brain called the nucleus accumbens, which is very much your motivation part of your brain. The part that makes you seek pleasure, but like alcohol, as you know, you feel awful the next day or the day after, right? It's got a long-term negative effect because it's not helping the real cause it's just giving you short-term band aid solutions. But the problem with sugar, particularly in terms of obesity, is the way the fructose energy...because it's so much energy for our bodies, our bodies can't cope with it. So, it gets stored in what we call the visceral fat cells, which are these cells that line our stomach and thighs, for example, they’re like little cancer cells and they multiply, it’s like gas chambers in a way.
Tracey Challenor:
And that's the dangerous fat, isn't it? That's the really bad fat, visceral fat.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yeah. Well, we're not meant to have it. Our bodies aren't exercising enough to get rid of it. So, they multiply and then to get rid of those little cells, you never get rid of them, you can shrink them. But they're difficult because that's why people will say, as you get older, why is it so hard for me to lose weight now?
Tracey Challenor:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Professor Selena Bartlett:
And I was exactly that person. I hadn't hit menopause yet or anything, but I was struggling to lose weight in those areas. And I just thought, that's how it was because I'd had children and that was my age. No, I'm here to tell you. It is not right. That is wrong. And as I took out sugar, I increased my exercise. I got my waistline back and I flattened my stomach without doing extreme amounts of anything. So, I just got it wrong.
Tracey Challenor:
That's encouraging for a lot of women because I think we can all relate to that. Do we even know how much sugar we should be eating? What's the recommended daily amount?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Well, so it's, it's much less than you'd hope it to be. So, it's like six teaspoons for women, nine for men and three for children.
Tracey Challenor:
Wow. Some people would have that before they even walk out the front door in the morning.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yeah. Well like for example, like fruit-laden yogurt, low-fat yoghurt contains more sugar than a can of Coke, almost.
Tracey Challenor:
And a lot of those soda drinks have so much sugar in them and kids are having them a lot, aren't they?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
And don't even think of it as soda, think of it as any beverage, almost, and even kombucha has sugar in it.
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
So, this is the thing, like we get things labelled as healthy, but everything's been up-scaled and up-sized. We actually don't know how much we're having and that's a really big issue, and it's just one of the issues. All food's been up sized and up scaled in terms of portion sizes too. So, it's difficult because we have so much abundance and it's marketed so it looks really healthy. Even if you go to a beautiful, healthy cafe and the amount of food you're getting served now is so much more than your body can handle, even if it's healthy.
Tracey Challenor:
That's right, yeah. And many parents will tell you when their kids come home from school, they feel tired and irritable and they want something sweet. I know with my kids, they're teenagers now, but they seem to crave sugar at that time of day.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yeah.
Tracey Challenor:
Is there a neuroscience reason why kids want that sugar hit in the afternoon? How can we convince them to eat something healthier?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Absolutely! This just goes back to the cause and you know why we need to be changing the education.
Tracey Challenor:
Yes...
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Because basically I'd love to share with you, but there's a whole list of things that are happening in our youth and teenagers that never even happened 20 years ago.
Tracey Challenor:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Around social media, around parental pressures, around financial pressures, pressures to perform.
Tracey Challenor:
Absolutely, yeah.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
We would call these first world pressures, but they're real. And they're happening across our youth. So, there's about a list of 25 things that our young people are faced with now that we weren't just 20 years ago, whether it's violence, sexual images.
Tracey Challenor:
Yes...
Professor Selena Bartlett:
All of these things and their brains processing it.
Tracey Challenor:
Overloaded.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
So, outside the social pressures of being at school, which we all know about ourselves, because we all dealt with those. Now they have pressures with both parents working, and I'm not against it, I'm just saying that family has broken down a lot.
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
It's just not the same anymore even though they look like they have more things.
Tracey Challenor:
Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Back to this stressed out in the afternoon. So, what we talked about was the vending machine for adults at work. Well, that's the same for children coming home from school.
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah, mum and the fridge and the pantry is the vending machine.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Yeah, exactly. For all of us, to be honest. Ours might be beer o'clock or wine o'clock.
Tracey Challenor:
That's right.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
But for kids it's three o'clock and it's so much pressure on parents to be honest, I'm a parent too. And you know, I didn't do a great job. I just did the best I could with the knowledge I had, which can always be better.
Tracey Challenor:
I think we can all feel like that at times.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
But yeah, we're all trying our best. And if people are listening to your podcast, it’s because they care and every parent I've met loves their children.
Tracey Challenor:
Absolutely.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
There's no one to blame here. It's just... it is where we are. There's these little strategies we can do to help make it a little bit better and easier for yourself and for the children because obesity kills and diabetes is now one of the leading causes in children, like children should not get type two diabetes. And it's one of the leading causes of ill health and children outside the mental health crisis that's happening. And it's from too much food, too much sugar, too much processed food. We can do something about that, right?
Tracey Challenor:
Yeah, we can.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
It's hard, but we can, but it's difficult.
Tracey Challenor:
We have to really don't we, because the forecast for obesity in the next 25 years in Australia are terrible. Aren't they?
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Well, 70% of people in Australia, are going to be overweight or obese by 2025.
Tracey Challenor:
Wow.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
And I now predict that that's probably going to be higher because of COVID. So COVID has amplified this because people are eating and drinking more because the stress around COVID has amplified, anything that was happening before COVID, basically.
Tracey Challenor:
You hear that anecdotally, don't you? Everyone's complaining about the weight they've put on this year and that they’re maybe drinking a bit more and eating a bit more.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Even without the anecdotes, it’s now published in Plos One. And they did an acute mental health survey of Australians between March and April. So, this is even before the second lockdown and 55% of people have reported an increase in adverse mental health event.
Tracey Challenor:
Well you mentioned that increase in mental health issues. We've been talking about ways to rewire the brain for better mental health. I guess though, some people, regardless of having a healthy diet and trying to have a positive mindset may just have depression and need another approach for that. Either professional help or medication. You're not opposed to that are you? You're simply saying these are neuroscience tools that can help a lot of people.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
These are absolute tools, but I do know that the research is so strong to demonstrate that as you understand and become in charge of your brain power, things change. We do now have significant advances in brain science in the last 10 years. This is just a tool and we've got a long way to go, but there's no doubt that genomics, brain imaging and neuroscience are going to completely transform mental health treatments over the next 60 years or sooner. It would be my hope, but things take a long time to change. Like think about how long it took us to stop smoking. For example, and people still smoke, which is totally up to them, but we still needed the knowledge to know that that caused lung cancer.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
We can change our brain health by getting to know our brain a little bit. At least make it a little bit better to live with certain things. And I think if we're serious as a country to help each other to bend and flatten the COVID-19 mental health crisis, this knowledge needs to get into everyone's hands. And that's why I call it brain health, it's everyone's business.
Tracey Challenor:
Well, it's a very empowering concept. Isn't it? Thinking that we can, I guess be a little bit more than masters of our own destiny and be the boss of our own brains.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Just a little bit, even just a little bit goes a long way.
Tracey Challenor:
Selena, I just want to thank you so much for joining us today to talk about neuroscience and the link between food and mood, and also how to unlock some of the incredible potential of the human brain. It's just a fascinating area that you work in.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Tracey, thank you so much for caring to help parents in this modern age. It's not easy is it?
Tracey Challenor:
No, it's not. Let's hope we've given people something to think about.
Professor Selena Bartlett:
Thank you. I'm sure they're all doing the best they can.
Tracey Challenor:
I've been chatting to Professor Selena Bartlett, author and research leader in addiction, neuroscience, and obesity at the Translational Research Institute in Brisbane. You can find out more about Selena's work on her website, at selenab.com.
I'm Tracey Challenor, and this is the Life Education Podcast where we reach out to experts to help with your parenting journey. And if there's a special topic you'd like us to look into for our parent podcast, you can find us at lifeeducation.org.au/podcast.
Hope you've enjoyed our chat today. I'll look forward to joining you again soon.